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※ 本文為 Knuckles 轉寄自 ptt.cc 更新時間: 2016-11-03 17:36:28
看板 car
作者 Scape (non)
標題 [新聞] Nissan將推出不用插頭的電動車
時間 Thu Nov  3 15:33:44 2016


Nissan將推出"E-Power"系統的車輛

這套動力系統同樣有內燃機、電動馬達及電池

但是與油電車不同的是內燃機不會提供動力給輪胎

只是把內燃機當成純粹幫電池充電的工具,動力部分完全由馬達來提供

而電池的部分將會比現在的Leaf來的更小(電池更小又靠純電驅動,電池壽命會比較短)

所以這是一輛不需要插頭的電動車。



個人覺得這套系統是在走回頭路了

論效能、噪音、震動比不上純電動車

燃油車引擎那種給駕駛的直接的回饋感覺也不存在

機構也比目前的電動車跟純燃油車來的複雜

不太看好這套系統

Nissan還是把Leaf搞好一點吧,續航現在新款式美國環保署公布也才172km

雖說下一代號稱會有超過300km的續航力,但要推出後才算數

把資源跟人力分去做另一套新的系統給通勤小車用有點浪費了

倒不如把Leaf做好,甚至拿來發展中大型電動房車或SUV


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https://goo.gl/fVQGFV
Nissan takes a step backward in electrification, introduces gas-powered range extender without plug | Electrek While EV enthusiasts are waiting for Nissan to announce its next generation LEAF, or whatever they will call their upcoming new electric vehicle with  ...

 

While EV enthusiasts are waiting for Nissan to announce its next
generation LEAF, or whatever they will call their upcoming new
electric vehicle with a 60 kWh battery pack, it looks like the
Japanese automaker is now taking a huge and confusing step backward
in electrification by introducing a gas-powered range extender called
‘E-Power’ without a plug?!

Of course, Nissan presented the new product this week as “moving
forward its electrification strategy”, but it looks like it was
designed by the Koch brothers.

The gas-powered range extender is nothing new. BMW has been offering
one in the i3 for quite some time now. They basically make an
over-complicated drivetrain to remove the dreaded “range anxiety”,
but as James May, who recently got rid of his BMW i3 with range
extender in order to go full electric, said: “it’s a form of
cowardice”.

Here’s the full quote from a recent interview:

“What I’ve actually ordered a new car, haven’t I? I’ve got an i3,
but I ordered a new i3, because it has an improved battery. And I’ve
gone for no range extender. I did have that before, but I felt that
was a form of cowardice, so I’ve abandoned that.”

The idea behind a range extender is that unlike a regular hybrid
vehicle, the electric powertrain is always the one powering the
wheels and the gas engine is only recharging the battery. Like the
Chevy Volt, but the vehicle has never been referred to as having a “
range extender” since it’s the only version of the vehicle
available, but the name came about when it was made an option on
vehicles that are also offered in fully electric.

Here are diagrams of a conventional hybrid versus a e-power/range
extender:

Nissan is going a step further backward with the e-power as it looks
like the gas engine is the only way recharge the battery. They are
talking about “eliminating the need for an external charger”. Not
sure where they are going with this, but that’s a gas-powered car.
There’s no other way to say it. Yes, electric motors are generating
the torque, but gas is the only source of energy.

Here's the actual drivetrain going in production right now according
to Nissan:

Details about availability are scarce, but it looks like it will soon
be available in Japan. You can find the press release in full below.

Nissan introduces new electric-motor drivetrain: e-POWER November 2,
2016

Nissan Motor Co. Ltd., today introduced its new drive system called
e-POWER to customers. It marks the first time that e-POWER technology
is available for consumers, marking a significant milestone in the
electrification strategy under Nissan Intelligent Mobility.

e-POWER borrows from the EV technology perfected in the Nissan LEAF,
the best-selling pure electric car in history, with more than 250,000
units sold. Unlike the LEAF, e-POWER adds a small gasoline engine to
charge the high-output battery when necessary, eliminating the need
for an external charger while offering the same high-output.

The Technology of e-POWER

The e-POWER system features full electric-motor drive, meaning that
the wheels are completely driven by the electric motor. The power
from a high-output battery is delivered to the e-POWER’s compact
powertrain comprised of a gasoline engine, power generator, inverter,
and a motor. In conventional hybrid systems, a low-output electric
motor is mated to a gasoline engine to drive the wheels when the
battery is low (or when traveling at high speeds). However, in the
e-POWER system, the gasoline engine is not connected to the wheels;
it simply charges the battery. And unlike a full EV, the power source
originates from the engine and not just the battery. This system
structure generally requires a bigger motor and battery because the
motor is the only direct source to drive wheels. This has made it
hard for the automotive industry to mount the system in compact cars.
However, Nissan has cracked the code and learned how to minimize and
reduce weight, develop more responsive motor control methods and
optimize energy management. As a result, e-POWER uses a smaller
battery than the LEAF, but delivers the same driving experience as a
full EV.

The Benefits of e-POWER

e-POWER delivers massive torque almost instantly, which enhances
drive response and results in smooth acceleration. Also, the system
operates very quietly, much like a full EV. Because e-POWER relies on
the engine much less frequently, its fuel efficiency is comparable to
that of leading conventional hybrids, especially during
around-the-town commutes. The e-POWER system allows you to enjoy all
the benefits of an EV without having to worry about charging the
battery.

Development History

Nissan is actively pursuing a zero-emission, zero-fatality world for
driving through its EV program and autonomous drive technology. To
make this vision a reality, Nissan is developing “Nissan Intelligent
Mobility,” which anchors critical company decisions around how cars
are powered, how cars are driven, and how cars integrate into
society, all while staying focused on creating more enjoyable driving
experiences. e-POWER is another step towards achieving our
zero-emission vision through a new and more efficient electric
powertrain.

In 2006, Nissan experienced a breakthrough in its energy management
technology. Nissan’s engineers were able to reduce the battery
capacity to match its competitors’ hybrid vehicles while still
delivering desirable EV qualities, such as quietness and efficient
energy use. In addition, application of Nissan’s technologies, such
as the integration of a power-generating engine, electric motor drive
for compact car use, strengthening of the powertrain’s rigidity and
improvements in NVH levels, became the foundation of e-POWER and its
implementation in the compact-car segment. Nissan is committed to
developing electric-powered powertrains that use various fuels to
cater to the different requirements of the world’s markets. e-POWER
is but one example of that quest and will strengthen Nissan’s lineup
of electric-powered powertrains. Nissan is also conducting research
and development of the SOFC (Solid Oxide Fuel Cell) fuel-cell
vehicle, and will continue to introduce innovative new products into
various areas and promote the worldwide use of EVs.

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LittleID: 跟把柴油發電機和電池放在一起有幾分相似1F 11/03 15:35
chun0629: 一台EV行李箱放台強制排氣發電機不就達成了 87分2F 11/03 15:47

其實這套系統就跟BMW i3增程版沒什麼不同

不懂Nissan花資源在這上面幹嘛

是電動車做不贏別人嗎?
※ 編輯: Scape (1.34.252.81), 11/03/2016 15:49:04
ck940560: 這叫做串聯式混和動力....3F 11/03 15:49
OrzOGC: 背台發電機跑的概念?4F 11/03 15:52
l257065: 這樣還是得繳燃料稅跟驗黑煙吧!?5F 11/03 15:52

要喔,而且在台灣會掛燃油車的白牌,在台灣法律上是油電車而不是電動車

qazwsx6107: 癌董的電動車要起死回生了?6F 11/03 15:58
※ 編輯: Scape (1.34.252.81), 11/03/2016 16:05:48
cyc4aa12: 有意義嗎?用引擎發電再帶馬達搞不好效率比直接用引擎帶7F 11/03 16:07
cyc4aa12: 車子還低
jagger: 這樣做效率更低更耗能9F 11/03 16:07
Tosca: 這不就accord hybrid嗎 引擎只是充電用阿10F 11/03 16:09
Vincent0312: 此部車讓我想到Top Gear的Hammerhead Eagle i-Thrust11F 11/03 16:10

是Jeff耶 XDDD

dslite: 半台accord hybrid12F 11/03 16:13
a9564208: 看引擎怎麼設計…效率不見得低13F 11/03 16:17
gcaa: 這種車排氣量會很小,可以全程使用引擎燃燒效率最好的區間14F 11/03 16:21
gcaa: 做動,引擎只需要傳遞穩定的電流即可,雖然是過渡產品但我
gcaa: 覺得效率會高於純EV,畢竟省去了從電廠發電到電池這一段路的
gcaa: 損耗

這一段損耗並不高。問題反而是內燃機引擎效率遠低於發電廠

最有效率的那一段區間範圍又小

除非有像賓士F1那樣的黑科技能大幅的回收引擎流失的動能轉變成電能

否則就算加上的發電廠到電池的輸送耗損,內燃機還是比不上電動車的效率

但電動車最好的作用我覺得還不是在於贏在效率這一部分

而是能當成儲存發電廠離峰發電能力的工具,減少整體能源的浪費

不過這是另一個話題了

IamBuki: 各種回收機制 不過油電車八成都用toyota那套專利18F 11/03 16:22
※ 編輯: Scape (1.34.252.81), 11/03/2016 16:37:21
utap2001: 發電廠的發電效率是最高的 內燃機發電效率低 在轉到19F 11/03 16:28
utap2001: 電池效率更差 這種油耗我猜大概5-8km/l吧
ccc73123: NISSAN公布的數字是37.2km/L21F 11/03 16:32
ccc73123: 你似乎猜錯了
hclstarkid: 這種方式跟載一台柴油發電機在車上有87%像23F 11/03 16:32
Tradesque: 雖然續航不太優但國外Leaf真的賣超好的..24F 11/03 16:33

賣的是不錯,但可能是推出的早的關係

覺得有點後繼乏力了

價格是他的兩三倍的Model S在銷售數量上都贏過他了

平價電動通勤都會小車後面還有Zoe也賣得很好

http://i.imgur.com/YD8Yqov.png
[圖]
 

Zoe似乎沒在美國、中國上市

但是在歐洲已經超越Leaf了

http://i.imgur.com/3oekT6g.png
[圖]
 

個人覺得Zoe比較好看續航力也比較好,如果能擴大銷售範圍的話,應該很快可以超越Leaf

http://i.imgur.com/q1SSa0d.jpg
[圖]
 
※ 編輯: Scape (1.34.252.81), 11/03/2016 16:57:20
chandler0227: 那就是REEV增程式電動車啊 這不是已經非主流好久了25F 11/03 16:59
abc801224: 這樣經過兩次能量轉換會比較好?26F 11/03 16:59
chandler0227: 一台車裝兩具功率相當(一個引擎發電一個馬達當動力)27F 11/03 17:00
chandler0227: 根本不優啊
chandler0227: 這種做法就是盡量讓引擎在高效率區間,還是會比傳統
chandler0227: 內燃機車輛好一些,但不知道為啥又走Hybrid的回頭路

我也這麼覺得,Nissan不知道在想什麼
※ 編輯: Scape (1.34.252.81), 11/03/2016 17:04:56
chandler0227: 油電Hybrid專利多到數不完啦 不要以為只有TOYOTA31F 11/03 17:05
chandler0227: 油耗37.2km/L是法規上好看吧 只測一次cycle搞不好大
chandler0227: 部分都是耗掉原先電池裡的電
chandler0227: 台灣L牌幾年前就有把U7改成這種REEV了,真的沒多好
chandler0227: Accord Hybrid引擎可以直接參與輸出跟這台又不同= =
LIONDODO: 廣告詞重新寫一下感覺就不同了:「不怕沒電的電動汽車」36F 11/03 17:17
LIONDODO: 「您習慣的用車方式」「新世代的革新科技」
[圖]
 
[圖]
 
utap2001: 如果我沒記錯的話 nissan這種就是第一代hybrid 串聯式40F 11/03 17:33
utap2001: 後來就是因為油耗不好轉換效率差 才改成toyota的串並聯

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